One of the dangers of having a system based on Secret Chiefs, either internally or externally, is that you are able to offend them. In this respect they certainly are similar to Godforms.
There are cases where people are said to have lost their contacts or Secret Chiefs often for the strangest of offenses.
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| Dion Fortune |
You could also lose a contact or Secret Chief because you angered them by revealing some big secret or had carried out some evil magic. Most of the sources for this myth are fictions. Dion Fortune was supposed to have lost a contact after she published Mystical Cabbalah and yet there is nothing in the Dion Fortune collection that suggested any of her Secret Chiefs had abandoned her.
Obviously if your secret chiefs are physical there can be any number of reasons why they might break the link with you and your order. You might have offended another rising star, you might have failed to come up with some promised cash, or you might simply be a public embarrassment. These are the sorts of things that anger physical chiefs who are bound by their egos, but probably not astral ones.
Indeed Astral contacts to appear more aloof and reasonable by comparison. I say by comparison because I have seen Astral secret chiefs give some fairly rubbish and insane advice.
Once that I was told by one contact that I would not work with him any longer and that he was not really my “secret chief” in the first place. I could not say I was surprised, I never really thought he had been. But what followed was a long period of me ignoring the idea of Secret Chiefs and Contacts completely… physical or otherwise. Part of this was because I started working exclusively on the Golden Dawn tradition. Sure I met inner plane beings, but nothing like the level expected for a contact.
This dumping of the contact was not so much because I had offended the early Secret Chief. It was simply that I was no longer working along those guidelines and could not pick him up any more. The same probably applies to those who do some type of magic which is not in tune with their Secret Chief.
I do not teach people to look for contacts or Secret Chiefs. As Chic Cicero once told me “You do not need to go looking for Secret Chiefs, if you do the work they come looking for you!” He was completely right.
My physical chief challenge was based on squashing an important myth, that physical secret chiefs are a 19th century marketing gimmick. So far I have not seen any evidence that they ever existed, or that they exist now. I remain open minded until August 5, but if they don’t show up the onus will be on those who claim that they talk to physical chiefs to actually prove it, because there is a body of evidence which says otherwise.
There are those who are like dogs chasing their own tails on this question. Rather than seeing the secret chief as an extension of their own intellect or wish fulfilment they keep chasing an idea which takes them nowhere. Then they have the gall to say to the world “look we are superior because we are contacted with a secret chief.” Chances are that it is their own arses which is leading them rather any real Secret Chiefs.
Dear Nick your experiment reminds me a communist leader of the Spanish Civil War, "La Pasionaria" , she go to their meetings, saying: "I will prove to you that God does not exist", shouting, "If God exists a lightning strikes me and kill me, I give five minutes ", the entire audience waited five minutes in silence and then she clapped and shouted: "You see God does not exist ", and were so happy, honestly this kind of experiments do not seem unreliable. Anyway this being very funny and very interesting all your thoughts, thank you very much Nick.
ReplyDeleteRicardo you are comparing apples to oranges in your argument. The discussion here is with regards to what some people believe to be flesh based secret chiefs, not invisible bearded men in the sky.
ReplyDeleteIn malkuth in by your intrinsic existence here you have to have a foot print, these invisible secret chiefs have none other than claims of their followers. Now people can shout all they want about god existing but this is not physical proof of a physical being, people can experience god this is evidence of a non astral being not proof. We define things based upon the plane they manifest on. Here in reality if you are to exist you have to be able to prove it and you can prove it, science can prove you or I exist, I can prove you or I exist, nobody has proven that the cheif's exist, shouting does not = proof, posturing does not = proof, if they are physical and you are going to use them as evidence of your authority or power then you need proof, if they are astral then you judge by different rules.
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ReplyDeletenemesis is female. i don't know how that impacts your masterful detective work.
DeleteDebunking DG is easy. What seems to take so long is trying to debunk griffs GD without exposing the whole GD fraud for what it is. bringing down everyones house of card tricks
DG likes to play the role of girl in his sockpuppets quite a bit. If you were a woman you would see how bad he was at it. Unless GD swaps the handle with his wife occasionally the chance of him ever having been a woman is pretty impossible.
DeleteIf you look at the comments he has long conversations with himself where he forgets which sock puppet is which. Griffins GD is nothing to do with the real GD... he himself has said as much. His GD groups do really weird things such as doing grades on the same day, or roped together which are considered almost dangerous by traditional GD groups.
Certainly all he paperwork and teaching he gives out is pure regardie with little else added (unless you are in his secret chiefs based second order).
I am pretty sure that if people wanted to kick DG it would be easy to do so without bringing down other GD orders. I think it takes so long is because Griffin relies on conflict to give himself recognition and most GD types don't want to give him any recognition or stand up to his BS. They let him play his SRIA game for so long secretly laughing at him that he was appearing so insane and he was so off the mark. It looks like they thought he would put so many people off he would shut up. He didnt he just kept getting worse and worse. What is bad is that his insanity seemed to draw more people in. There are people in his order who are respected and seemed to be spouting the same insanity.
This seems to describe the situation quite well . . .
DeleteIf the narcissist’s hypocrisy is dragged out and cast at his feet, he would deny the hypocrisy, insisting that you are misunderstanding, misinterpreting, or simply making a mountain out of a mole hill.
You can’t win with hypocrites of any stripe, and you can’t win with a narcissist. Both are deeply invested in their hypocrisy, their mind games, their entitlements.
http://narcissistschild.blogspot.ca/2012/06/narcissists-and-hypocrisy.html
I am posting this again because it proves Nemesis is David Griffin.
DeleteDeanna Bonds had a blog with non moderated comments. There was a discussion between pseudo AO members and other people. Griffin was upset and created Nemesis who used nasty comments to force Deanna to make all the comments moderated for approval.
Before she approved a comment by David Griffin the comment stated it was by David Griffin.Once the comment was approved it stated by Nemesis thus proving they are one in the same.
Deanna Bonds states "This is strange. When I went to approve this comment it said it was from David Griffin, after approval it says Nemesis."
See this link to verify this.
http://path-to-the-stars.blogspot.com/2012/04/david-griffin-caught-lying.html
The smoking gun I was looking for. THANK YOU!
DeleteRegard the world of magic. A scattering of occult orders which, when not attempting to disprove each other’s provenance, are either cryogenically suspended in their ritual rut, their game of Aiwaz Says, or else seem lost in some Dungeons & Dragons sprawl of channelled spam, off mapping some unfalsifiable and thus completely valueless new universe before they’ve demonstrated that they have so much as a black-lacquered fingernail’s grip on the old one. Self-consciously weird transmissions from Tourette’s-afflicted entities, from glossolalic Hammer horrors. Fritzed-out scrying bowls somehow receiving trailers from the Sci-Fi channel. Far too many secret chiefs, and, for that matter, far too many secret indians.
ReplyDelete- Alan Moore, "Fossil Angels"
^^ I thought that was fitting to post on its own.
ReplyDeleteMy personal viewpoint is an echo of Regardie's hopes and wishes that the G.D. would NOT become a monopoly. All of the drama aside, I would like to believe there is a unifying same goal for the Work, perhaps reached through different paths.
Hi Nick
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Griffin was so taken by your dog chasing its tail analogy he copied it and used it to slag you off. He also changed the date stamp to make it look like he thought of it first because it was not up there on Tuesday. How sad is that!
Nick, thanks for your articles, thoughts and ramblings.....maybe you might be a Secret Chief, but just don't know it now because it's a secret! So on the 5th make sure to look in the mirror. I must say i am amused that your articles on the Chiefs has become a marketing 'gimmick' for the Temple of Starlight...hehe Ina seems very grateful.
ReplyDeleteDavid griffin proclaim to have new materiel for neophyte and at the same time refuse to share it with any of the members of his Order who do the demand. Probably because anybody on earth if they see these documents shall see how fake they are.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that when we ask for proof of an SC that we are told we have been given it and it must have been in New York minute when it did. All I saw was some notes that were claimed to be written by Third order Chiefs and whose content in no way was recognized as a supposed Third Order proclamation but of mild lack luster observations. If we are expected to see this as an occultist genius working and as en example of their ability then they have well and truly missed the boat. On the other subject offered as proof -being the WOW effect of people of this teachings cuts no ice. I did not know any of the people involved nor their level of GD competence and nor would I accept a verbal reassurance of their abilities as I tend to make my own mind on on people competency to judge what a Third order teachings is and how it differs from a Second Order level. So the proof we have been offered are some lame duck papers and a patronizing mention that independent people have examined these claims. These are speculations that would fail any test by competent GD adepti. The GP took all of this from inhouse to outhouse, and that it where it has stayed. The reality is that if people claiming to be from the Third Order -from the same Order that directed Mathers, then textual documentation would have to be presented, for if not, then the GP has taken someone's word only and that would make him a bigger laughing stock then he already is. So far the general opinion is that this is what he has done and we have seen no documentation re Mathers. The GP has hinted that in occult orders documentation from the Third Order is not given, bullshit, all you have to do is follow paper trails of such orders to this effect in the 19th century from certificates to letters, many of which are often forgeries. So if presented with such material then it has to be tested as well. So in effect, the inference is that there are no paper trails to Mathers, just verbal reassurances whose power is so great that a paper trail is not needed. So far, until this information turns up the likely hood is that these claims will be treated as baloney.
ReplyDeletePat
Its amazing how people change the goal posts. The GP initially stated that he was in contact with the SC’s from Third order, the same group that directed Mathers. Since no one is alive from that time I asked for proof (textual evidence) that the person he claimed to have contacted was tied to the Third order that directed Mathers. Now that question has been redirected to whether the SC ‘s are an inner plane contact as opposed to real people. Since Ruggiu has stated on face book the GP meet with the SC’s in his house then the issue of this particular SC being an ethereal being or not becomes a moot point. My concern is that textual evidence be revealed to show the claims made that this member of this particular Third order is the same one that directed Mathers. So far it appears that this SC simply said he was part of that order and was believed. Now the GP made these claims, I did not, its time back them up.
ReplyDelete“Returning to the main issue here raised by Pat Zalewski. It was never a question about proving or disproving the existance of the Secret Chiefs, either in the flesh or the popular post-modernist view of angelic Secret Chiefs who can be channeled into any willing medium. The question which we are debating is whether MacGregor Mathers, Westcott or Brodie-Innes belived in physical Secret Chiefs or astral ditto, or both. As the Golden Dawn in the Outer and the R.R. et A.C. (at least to the level of Th.A.M.) since the last Century has been turned into a Freemasonic and exoteric Order, at least that can be researched with a basic level of academic rigour.”
If you seriously want academic rigor applied to this then textual evidence is needed otherwise to link the GP’s Third order to Mathers. Going on verbal assurances does not cut it or would be accepted since it is not a primary source material, especially in modern era where writing is so much relied on.
Then we have a further admonishment by SR
“However, all ESOTERIC levels of the system, i.e. beyond the 5=6 and especially the true nature beyond the 8=3, CANNOT and WILL NEVER BE. Pat Zalewski damn well knows that, which makes his gambit look ridiculus, regardless if he is just playing his usual game of irony or if all of this simply expresses his ignorance.”
Well in my particular branch of the GD , originally under Felkin ( I now work my own system now for the grades above 5=6) , we used those levels and the Felkins description of them are mystical in their appraisal and I have followed in that direction. Of course Madam Horus told Mathers she was an 8=3 and he accepted that, until he found out otherwise. The reference to the true nature of the system not going above the THAM is bewildering for a self proclaimed AO member, as their old AO rituals extended to 7=4 , according to Brodie Innes and what modern scholars have uncovered. I can understand this if SC and the GP have blocks in this area of GD development, but fortunately I do not have that problem s my direction in the GD is clear sighted and I have never wavered from it. My understanding though is that both SR and the GP have ranks above the 5=6 and equal to the 8=3. So how that statement can be sustained is ridiculous.
Pat
DionF comments are highly accurate. Her Secret Chiefs were indeed blocked.
ReplyDeleteI highly recommend a open minded personal reading of her small book "Psychic Self Defense" within an esoteric mental worldview.
Now read the brief life history and what the world was like around the time DF lived. Especially the state of psychological sciences and religious/spirituality-related beliefs.
Now! try and tell me DF was wrong. Now see if you can find her, and your, Secret Chiefs.
-mist