Comments

Comments on this site are welcome but generally I will delete those made anonymously or any posts if they are seen to attack anyone.

Saturday, 8 March 2014

What things were like in Whare Ra

video

A few blogs have appeared attempting to discredit Pat Zalewski, and to a lesser extent my own involvement with Whare Ra.   You might find long winded blogs out there penned by people who have never even visited New Zealand, let alone talked to Whare Ra people. They all insist that Pat, Christine, or Tony, or myself had nothing to do with Whare Ra and attempt to prove it.

One of the weird things I have noticed about the Internet is that you find a lot of Black is white comments, which deny things which I actually saw and took part in.  When it comes down to it, these comments are usually written by those who do not have any real connection to the Golden Dawn and have lineage envy.

I have written a chapter in my book Beyond the Sun about my Whare Ra involvement and will add some more details when it becomes available through Skylight Publishing next year.  Pat has recounted his experiences in the above video which makes for some jolly interesting viewing.  Pat points out that people claim that he does not follow the "Whare Ra way" as if they were experts.  However the temple did not run like that.  Every senior adept had a view about what was going on and each of them taught their students accordingly.  Pat had Jack Taylor who was the most experienced Hierophant in GD history holding the job in Whare Ra under Mrs Felkin.  The fact that Pat was trained AFTER the Whare Ra has closed is meaningless, in fact he received a better quality of training than some Whare Ra people received in the 1970s.  Training continued after Whare Ra closed its doors and there were even some initiations carried out. Must of the ritual techniques could be clearly seen in the Order of the Table Round.
To add to Pats video I would say something that many modern Golden Dawn people would not understand.  Chances are to be a member of a REAL golden dawn order might not be the fantasy you want.

In Whare Ra you were a student and you knew your place.  This whole having to listen to students pontificate intellectual knowledge or demanding grades was unheard of.  When you were ready for a grade you were told to take a test. If you could not do a lesser ritual of the pentagram ritual you would not get to 1=10.  Getting to 5=6 meant that someone thought you were special.  Those who reached the 6=5 and 7=4 had proved themselves over years of service to the Order and not because someone thought it was the right time.  This would create an order which sounds good on paper, but with the "kids of today" would find autocratic and limiting.

Someone has made the bizarre claim that this blog somehow means that I think that Golden Dawn Lineage is important.  It seems the story has been picked up by Watchers of the Dawn who asked me for a comment. My regular readers will be pleased to know that I did not have a brain hemorrhage and start renouncing everything I have ever said in my books about this particular side show.

All lineage to the Golden Dawn is made up... if you are any good at what you do you don not need lineage anyway. 

I had some good training from the Whare Ra people, and others.  If I did nothing with it, it would be useless.





10 comments:

  1. Great little post, Nick. Thanks. From my peripheral connection with Whare Ra, through correspondence with an ex-adept member and a lot of stuff from his daughter, your comments here are bang on the money. :)

    ReplyDelete
  2. Nick, always a great blog. Being able to listen to someone such as Pat (or yourself or other(S) is always a pleasure. I think these bits of info about ones past are fascinating and help to empower the GD, (WR, OTR, SM, Old AO, MOAA...). I can't speak for others but sometimes the teachings feel dry and antiquated. When I personally hear stories and anecdotes (Live or Memorex), it brings me back to a common ground feeling instead of a million miles from a current. While being Solitary, these thing remind me, "We are not alone".
    Much Respect to all
    ~CoalFire

    ReplyDelete
  3. Nick, always a great blog. Being able to listen to someone such as Pat (or yourself or other(S) is always a pleasure. I think these bits of info about ones past are fascinating and help to empower the GD, (WR, OTR, SM, Old AO, MOAA...). I can't speak for others but sometimes the teachings feel dry and antiquated. When I personally hear stories and anecdotes (Live or Memorex), it brings me back to a common ground feeling instead of a million miles from a current. While being Solitary, these thing remind me, "We are not alone".
    Much Respect to all
    ~CoalFire

    ReplyDelete
  4. Nick, always a great blog. Being able to listen to someone such as Pat (or yourself or other(S) is always a pleasure. I think these bits of info about ones past are fascinating and help to empower the GD, (WR, OTR, SM, Old AO, MOAA...). I can't speak for others but sometimes the teachings feel dry and antiquated. When I personally hear stories and anecdotes (Live or Memorex), it brings me back to a common ground feeling instead of a million miles from a current. While being Solitary, these thing remind me, "We are not alone".
    Much Respect to all
    ~CoalFire

    ReplyDelete
  5. Both you and Pat make some good points about Whare Ra. I've only read a little about the order itself, but some of the extrapolations that Pat has published in his books are interesting.

    The click-through link on the video doesn't seem to be working; is it marked as private on YouTube?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Right Nick. Very clever removing your "lineage envy" statement. Would you like me to publish the .pdf of your original version of this blog?

    ReplyDelete
  7. David you really need to do something about your projection problem. This blog has not been changed since it went up. In fact all that has been done is I added the the last par. The quote you are looking for is in the second par where it always was (unchanged) . My guess is that you did not see this blog in context before you ran your rant and doctored the quote which some else had it sent to you (you should really do some research before you try to defame people. Otherwise you would have seen the quote and not made a fool of yourself as you have done here. BTW sock puppets are your domain, not mine. The people behind Watchers are known in Oxford (I did some digging to find out who they were) and are nothing to do with me or the Modern Golden Dawn. I have given them story ideas (two of which they ran) but they are not me (as you know really) . If Watchers were me they would be full tabloid a lot nastier and pull no punches. So, once again, you look an idiot just like you did when you spent two years claiming I was a member of SRIA which was conspiring against you. You might not really want to keep pushing the "watcher is a sockpuppet of Nick Farrell line" my time in PR taught me that pissing off an independent press which you don't control gives them the desire to get you. My advice is stop being an idiot and Watcher will go away and find new targets... they might even investigate me. Right now your ill conceived paranoiac attacks on people from outside the GD community are just causing you to lose what ever case you might think you have. Needless to say David, BTW I don't think the "Golden Dawn" is dead, I think you are the living embodiment of it, I think people should study you and your blog as an example of what the modern Golden Dawn has become in the 21st Century and marvel at the depth and quality of your teaching.

    ReplyDelete
  8. One point I would like make is that SR has made the comment on his blog I was caught out (doing what I do not know) but this obviously came from a letter from Tony Fuller to Lenny. These generic references cut no ice unless you can nail something down specific that I have done to be caught. So its put up or shut time on this matter. SR is parroting Tony Fuller's letter with knowing the "what" or number of "whats" lets bring it out in open. If a claim has been made that I have falsified something then lay what it is and forget this generalisation as that is BS. I have always been a straight shooter and do not talk around corners.What you see is what you get.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unfortunately Pat, not every one has your sense of fair play. Quite often persons of lesser virtue can be deceptive, sneaky, hold onto dirty armanents for a potential rainy day, and all kinds of cloak and dagger, stuff where cards may never be played. Your willingness to be open and honest is highly commendable. Regrettably not everyone within magick shares your nobility. That is a hard lesson to acept. You are not the only one who has been attacked by anonymous' and other sockpoppet cowards. Personally I have never seen the point in fighting unless one is either attacked; Or something is actually worthwhile winning. But when I look at the history of all the lineage wars Griffin and yourself etc etc - it makes me wonder 'whats the fucking prize' it is all so pointless the decade old bickering between various groups. To me other than a case of direct spirit/deamon possession (from teacher to disciple) lineage is just a BS illusion. (Bowing out respectfully).

      Delete
  9. I feel that before commenting on tradition , people could try remembering exactly where there Neptune is natally and now for themselves and other people . if the evolution of magic exists then who decided that yhe evolution was complete

    ReplyDelete