Now we eagerly await David Griffin's future revelations on who is the puppet master of the Modern Golden Dawn.
P.S David
Although I appreciate that you no longer are accusing me of being a hacker, I did notice your threat on your blog to scan my books in and distribute them free. Unfortunately the law does not work that way when it comes to books. You had better hope that my books are not scanned because after your public confession that you were going to do so yours would be the first place the police would investigate.
The book of the tomb of course is available for download for anyone who wants it. I have tidied up some of the graphics for my book King over the Water which makes it easier to study. This is called adding value.
I wonder if the Black Rosicrucians have done extraordinary rendition on him, and he's trussed up in a Pastos in a Dark Vault somewhere?
ReplyDeleteIt is an attempt to stop his Golden Dawn conference.... or maybe his Secret Chiefs want to make sure that their secrets are not released.
ReplyDeleteI honestly suspect, as time goes by, there may be some sort of personality disorder involved. I mean the paranoid self centred attitude, a serious persecution complex; is there a doctor in the house? - I wouldnt be suprised if it was his own initiates cleaning up this embassing mess.
ReplyDeleteWe are informed that:
ReplyDelete... to follow the example of Julian Assange and of Wikileaks, and to expose what our enemies most fear will come to the light of public scrutiny." I will second that thought and start then ball rolling. Apparently, according to one of its members, Bourke had no rank in Serapis temple, nor did he teach there. The rituals they used were the Regardie rituals and not those of the AO. So the AO lineage is bogus for if it was real they would have been taught the AO rituals and they were not. The chiefs of that temple were self taught, by their own admission they received no training from Bourke, who had none to give them in the SM or AO.
This is most enlightening. Good to know that Bourke did not hold a position within Serapis temple nor that he was in a position to teach. This helps clear up a great deal.
DeleteIt would be interesting and I think elucidating to see a nice documented history of Serapis temple, its philosophy, its teachings, and its influence. Something like this would go a long way to dispelling unhealthy myths and rumors surrounding the people and work of Serapis.
Maybe he was eaten by a crocodile.
ReplyDelete"Tis a pity that this blog post by Mr. Griffin has been "sanitized". I was so looking forward to the huge "reveal" of just who or what was behind the attacks on his reconstructed Order.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, if Mr. Griffin survives the "re-education" at the hands of the Black Rosicrucians, then we may yet have hope that he will be able to further enlighten the rest of us.
Um.
ReplyDeleteI'm coming to these questions and this matter more than a little late, myself. But I'm more creeped out by the idea that someone has been the head of ANY order for 20+ years. I thought the whole point of any initiatory lodge group's experience was to learn to spread out the leadership skills and the practice of the order among a wide body of members?
I worked my way through some but not all of Israel Regardie's book in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and at the time I was eager to work GD stuff with others, because it seemed like that was how "it was supposed to be done." But reading about all this today, I'm kinda glad I never found any of the GD groups. I'm sorta glad, now, that I stayed solo.
What a moron.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
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ReplyDeleteEdited the facebook page so that your picture was not included. Please be aware however that I would have done that anyway. I am not the sort who steals other peoples photographs and then shoved them on a site. The above was an accident still not sure how you recognised yourself :-).
DeleteI have began to wonder if Griffin isn't just a parody character of a lodge leader, much like Steven Colbert is a parody of right wing pundit. If so he has a long way to go to get the humor level up. But he is so over the top it is hard to take him anyway but as a satire of lodge leader. His rants are humorous in a way, who could take them seriously. If he isn't a parody I do worry for his mental health.
ReplyDeleteHey Nick, are the people paying you to attack the HOGD hiring?
ReplyDeleteLOLOL!
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ReplyDeleteHi Rufus
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean that you think having read David's post that I hacked his website deleted one post and then reposted it on my site? Under British Law would that make you a fair and reasonable person who made a logical conclusion?
Not sure of the logic of hacking into his site to take something taken out of circulation and then reposting it.
Actually I really want him to name someone who is behind the attacks on his order. Which was why I reported it.
Nick, I would hope not, I think I've established in my blog post published prior to this commentary that I see this whole episode as entirely fictitious and for entertainment purposes only.
DeleteBut for the record, I do not believe you hacked his web site and deleted one post and then reposted it on your site. I believe he deleted it himself, and completely fabricated the story of the alleged hacking.
DeleteI would like to think it happened in a rare moment of lucidity.
I do not believe that you are being paid to attack him in any way, nor do I believe your publishing activities have anything whatsoever to do with the HOGD run by David Griffin.
Nick,
ReplyDeleteThis time you have gone too far.
You do not have permission to republish entire articles from The Golden Dawn blog. You are herewith informed that you are in violation of my copywrite. Please take down my copyright material immediately.
Secondly, It is highly sus[pect that the article was removed from my blog when it weas hacked yesterday and republished on your blog.
Moreover, Nick, I don;t care how much trash you talk about me. You have no right to drag my wife into your Golden Dawn mudfest, however, and certainly not entire and completely unrelated Pagan traditions.
Your actions, especially dragging others into your pogrom against me and the Alpha et Omega is beyond contempt.
La ringraziamo per la rimozione delle foto.
ReplyDeleteDianus e Diana del Bosco Sacro
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy wife is Pagan and not even an initiate of the Golden Dawn. She has nothing to do with your hate for me. Keep our wives out of this.
ReplyDeleteOK David I have removed that part of the facebook photo (which is in the public domain). I should point out that this was the same wife who said that I had no right to write about Golden Dawn history because I was not qualified. I would have thought that she was a member of your Order to speak with such authority about the Golden Dawn, but if she isn't that is all well and good.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Nick, for taking my wife's picture down. It was the honorable thing to do. Taking down my article would be even more honorable. "Fair use" gives you the right to cite certain parts of a story, not to republish it wholesale as though it were your property.
ReplyDeleteHow would you like it if I were to scan your books and make them available for free download on the Golden Dawn website.
That is excactly what you just did.
Publishing my picture is fair use. Citing from my articles is fair use. Making them available in their entirety is digital piracy. There is too much of that already with Digimob around. By contributing to the problem, you are sawing off the branch you are sitting on as an author.
Actually, Nick, my wife merely commented as an anthropologist on your failure to follow academic standards when it comes to discussing material from a book where you claim academic credibility as an historian.
ReplyDeleteIf you would like to debate academic standards, the historical method, or the ethnographic method with Leslie, that would be quite appropriate.
According to academic standards, It would be even more appropriate to drop the flame war tactics and defend your ideas on their merits, factually answering the factual objections that have been raised by GH Frater Sincerus Renatus.
It is not honorable, however, to include a photo of my wife in a below the belt, cheap attack on me.
From garbled psychic transmission:
ReplyDelete... appears to be nuclear sub... polar ice.. ack ... drugged maybe -seems to be waring off ...
Mulder and Scully trapped in the next compartment ... odenames "Moose and "Squirrel"... wait....
no... can't be.. Gad zooks it is! Mm. Horos!? ...can only mean all is lost for the entertainment wing of the GD... dizzy.. losing consc...
The auric profile was clearly that of the International Golden Dawn Imperator. This was all we got before the Nazgul began to circle headquarters .
Sorry you can't use your wife as your attack vehicle and then expect us to see you as separate. If she wants to stay out of the wars that you pick with the members Golden Dawn community she should not get involved. I took her down because you said she was not a member of the Golden Dawn and therefore was not involved. You might want to avoid using her to provide you with intellectual credibility in a field which she knows nothing in the future.
ReplyDeleteI cannot debate with SR because he simply publishes what ever you tell him to do so. He also spends most of his posts attacking me personally. He has not made a single point in any of his posts about the books I write, simply talks rubbish which is too long to read. I am sure he is bright enough but he should stop trying to please you and start looking at evidence and documents he has been shown rather than trying to find ways to snark at me.
Now as far as your legal threats. You forget what I do for a living and I am also really up with copyright law (strangely enough with the latest case history in your State). There is case law which states that it is acceptable to take an entire post (have a look at Righthaven) for the purpose of commentary. I understand you are ignorant about copyright law because you keep repeating the smear that I have copyrighted the Book of the Tomb (in fact I placed it under the creative commons which means that everyone has free access to it).
Now as far as your hacking allegation. Both of us know you were not hacked by me. Firstly because if I had hacked your account I would have deleted everything, changed the password and stuck up an abusive link. I would not have deleted the only post which did not obsessively mention me. Besides which I would not have the faintest idea how to do it. In fact I think your hacking skills are better than mine.
Finally I am ok with removing this post. My primary concern was that you had deleted it to prevent having to expose this great conspiracy theory you had. Now that your post is back up, this post has fulfilled its function.
However you have made this difficult as I do not want you thinking that you can legally threaten people in this way. You have made these empty threats several times now. So I am in a bind... if I take down my post then you will trumpet that I am scared of you and your mighty legal team. The truth is I am absolutely not. For the last few years I have not made any attacks or any comments about you and your group until last week. Yet you have consistently made attacks, even to the point of stealing and disfiguring my wedding photos. I have not been flaming you in anywhere but your own head. I did not write my books to have a go at you or your order. I wrote King over the Water and Mathers Last Secret to provide the Golden Dawn community with information they need. You, and your group, are not a factor in any decision I make. Instead of attacking me for what I write you should be showing the GD community you know what you are talking about. Instead of saying that the Secret Chiefs make you special... show us what you can teach.
I will take this post down when you assure me that you will stop attacking me and my Order and withdraw your bizarre hacking allegation. I will eagerly await your reply. You have my email it is up to you.
Nick Farrell
I protest! Removing this post would do a disservice to the audience at large. It has both aesthetic and artistic value, and may provide key plot points in future story lines.
DeleteIf you must remove his post, at least consider replacing it with a link to his re-post instead of deleting the entire thing. There are continuity issues at stake.
Nick if you were here
ReplyDeleteI'd buy you a beer
Hi Nick,
ReplyDeleteI never suggested that you hacked The Golden Dawn blog. I do not consider you capable enough to pull that off. So, we have that matter settled.
I am not making any real legal threats because damages for a short article would not be worth my while. If I wanted to be a jerk about this, I could easily do so, however. It would be a simple matter of scanning your books
(the good ones) and making them available for free download on our website. This way you would have to sue me in the USA, making it a breeze to file counter-claims against you with Jorge's help!
But let's not go there. We have both made our points and I accept your kind offer to take down this piece.
But why leave it just at that?
I am serious, Nick, about wanting to live and let live. There is no need for you anf your buddies to go on debating our lineages, the Secret Chiefs, and our teachings on Zalekwi's forum. Can't you guys talk about yourselves instead. You are not saying anything new anyway. You guys have been saying the same things over and over since Desmond Bourke dies and could no longer set the record straight.
You have to expect us to defend our order, however, against back handed attacks.
Finally, you are mistaken about the articles of Sincerus Renatus. I do not doubt that you feel attacked. He is not attacking you, however. I would encourage you to make yourself a good cup of coffee and read his critiques of "Mathers Last Secret" again.
It is your pretending that your critics "are not saying anything" that is undermining your academic credibility. It is a violation of academic protocol to try to simply dismiss criticism of one's arguments the way you continue to try.
When you write such an inflammatory book claim academic (historical) ethos, then it is natural for people to expect that you follow accepted academic standards regarding defending your arguments. Claiming that your critics "aren't saying anything" is no defense of one's arguments in the real academic world.
I am glad you seem to want to calm down the rhetoric. I know scandal sells, but you don't need this sort of stuff to sell your books.
Why not drop your obsession with the Alpha Omega and go back to writing good fiction and quality books on magic like you were before. You were writing fine material, until the tabloid journalist side got the better of you.
How about more books that even AO members can enjoy and praise. After all, we are all brothers and sisters.
As far as wanting to know what happens in the forthcoming episodes of The Golden Dawn Saga, you have to wait like everyone else!
I have a number of problems with your behaviour, Mr Griffin. Without going into great detail about how your Golden Dawn career started, there are enough documents available to expand on that if needed. I'm talking about the episode in the Vault, where you usurped grades in the presence of one other person, and a Spirit. No, I'm talking about how since then, you have continually worked against the egregore, whether by combining with other disreputable practitioners, notably in continental Europe, or by setting up slanderous propaganda machines, or by trying to rewrite history in multiple combinations. But this is perhaps commonplace. what sets you aside is your brazen hubris, at every turn, where you see yourself as the Supreme Pooh-bah, and any attempt to set the record straight is seen as heresy. I grant you your facile turn of phrase, and easy "graciousness" when your interlocutors facilitate verbal intercourse ; however, I hold you for a curse, and a blot, and your retirement to Agartha would remove at one stroke, a blemish on the escutcheon of this broad church. But then, perhaps you are a necessary scenario, an emanation of the cherubim, a reek of the chard coal, a shriek of the serpent. I know decency is not your forte, but perhaps shame might overcome you once in a while.
DeletePS take down that paper on GD research center, you know the one I mean, let's not bring Apponyi into this.
Rufus Opus has a good idea. Keep your article, but delete mine, and link to it on The Golden Dawn blog instead. It is childish for us not to link to one anothers' articles when debating.
ReplyDeleteLet us debate as brothers, Nick, fair and square, and set an example for the rest of the esoteric community how we can agree to disagree while remaining civil about it.
The Golden Dawn has a lot to offer and it easily gets lost in so much passion in rhetoric. Let us return to debating ideas on their merits.
There are thousands of hard working Fratres et Sorores in the Alpha Omega. Many of them read your books. When you attack our lineages or try to ridicule our order, you are being very unfair to all of your AO brothers and sisters.
Why not instead tell us what YOUR leadership philosophy is. You do not need to malign mine. Take a positive stance and set forth your ideas, your vision for the MOAA. What is the MOAA all about? What makes it unique in the Golden Dawn community?
People are genuinely curious, Nick!
Let us endeavor to build bridges in our community and quit trying to tear other people's down.
I have made it publicly clear that I am not writing any more historical material because I feel after two books I have done it and have so many other project to work on.
ReplyDeleteAgain this is not because it is rubbish, or I am scared of writing anything after losing to the pointed intellectual arguments of you and SR. My goal was to get the truth out there and update histories which have not been looked at by a practising Golden Dawn magician. I have been there, done that now and the AO material is available for the wider community to study. Also for the first time we have a clear idea what these groups did. I am happy.
I have always made it clear that I would talk about historical matters with anyone who is interested in the book. However when people start talking rubbish about me "having met Whare Ra members at a party" I will just ignore them.
Like I have said repeatedly I am not interested in your order. I am a writer and I write. You might not like some of it but that does not mean that I am writing about you.
PS: I do not tell SR what to publish. He is not my sock puppet. SR is his own man and a fine researcher in his own right, which you are as well when you keep your tabloid journalist in check.
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference between attacking your personally and criticizing your argumnts. I am certain that you do not consider us as peers, but in academia your work is nothing if your do not have peer review. By refusing to engage factual objections to your factual arguments you destroy all semblance of academic credibility by refusing to engage legitimate peer review.
You are more than a writer, Nick. You are a Golden Dawn leader. It still remains, however, for you to set forth your own leadership philosophy and to explain to the community what the MOAA is and the unique place it fills in our community.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe for one instant that all the MOAA is about is putting down the AO, mocking the Secret Chiefs, questioning our lineages, etc.
There is clearly a reason you founded the MOAA. It clearly fills a unique place in our Golden Dawn community. I, for one, would sincerely like to know what that is.
The way to win the hearts and minds of women and men, Nick, is by putting forth a unique and compelling vision.
I know that you have one, and everyone would like to know what YOUR vision is.
I am glad that we are talking to one another directly. This is a huge step forward. All the better that it is public so we set a good example like we should have been doing better all along.
It is a shame that you are not here for the Conclave. This is a missed opportunity. No matter. Next Winter I will be in Italy. I have to go to Benevento to receive more instruction in the Sacred Forest tradition. It would be great to meet for espresso in Rome and introduce one another to our wives.
Rome is one of my favorite cities.
Nick
ReplyDeleteThere were plenty of witnesses to how Dave posted your wedding photos.
I'd hold out for an apology before double dating.
Thanks for the entertainment, David :) I am SO looking forward to part II of the drama.
ReplyDeleteI find it cute that you of all people, master of the snide use of Photoshop, should make complaints about the use of photographs.
Blogs are re-posted all the time. A recent one of mine has been re-done on Wicanweb without letting me know. Part of the Net, it is :)
Also, I would have thought you'd be happy that Nick posted your post in the absence of it being stolen from your blog. I mean, you did put it out publicly for all the world to see. So, Nick helping it stay visible was nice, wasn't it? So you should be happy. Unless that was you in the anonymous guise, offering to buy him beer?
As for the hack - what hacker would successfully hack a blog and remove only the last post, one which makes the blog author look like a pillock? Any hacker worth his (her) salt would deface or delete the whole Blog, change security passwords, emails and resets, and lock you out.
Occam's Razor would lead us to the simplest solution: the Blog was not hacked at all. Who has access to your password, David? :) Thanks.
Personally, I would be guessing that David went to change something and hit the wrong button, reverting the post to "draft." It is one of the joys of blogging on Blogger.
ReplyDeleteAnd I find it amusing that people who were useful as evidence and witnesses are supposely not fair targets, that the person who has copied entire forum and blog posts of other people is crying "copyright!" and that we are not supposed to make fun of this whole idea that a single person is pulling everyone else's strings.
and let us not forget the "creative" editing of those lifted posts....
Delete@Morgan - that is the simplest solution of all, ta :) Forgot about David's penchant to lift whole posts from forums etc :)
ReplyDeleteHi David,
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that comes to mind when I read anything you write is, "Ma gavte la nata."
When David's wife entered the fray she did so as a anthropologist offering an opinion on a subject, not as somebody's wife. As a professionals she would know this and she also stuck her foot in it. That is part of academic rigor.
ReplyDeleteThe Work certainly is the most important thing, though from time to time a person, or group for that matter, should stand up to the lies and misrepresentations which cause harm not only to themselves, but to the Community as a whole.
ReplyDeleteAll that it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do NOTHING!
Now there is a the sign of a great GD spiritual leader, when Griffin threatens to place your book on the internet. No doubt the disciple SR will back this action up as well. Talk about Phoneys!
ReplyDeleteAt the moment the aggressors have adopted the injured party pose -true to form.
DeletePoint taken but some Nothings (Ain) are more powerful than some somethings.
ReplyDeleteNick, please, stop talking to this buffoon... the whole story isn't entertaining anymore. It's just pathetic.
ReplyDeleteFunny thing it is that David wants to unmask some sort of puppet master, when he himself is one. Here is proof, a confession by Frater SR for an anonymous defamation blog, that David does have sock puppets.
ReplyDeletehttp://gyllenegryningen.blogspot.com/2009/04/dont-feed-blog-trolls.html?showComment=1241607060000#c1386152323951274533
Best take a snapshot of the thing before he realises how his honesty can affect the reputation of his order that claims to have nothing to do with gay flame wars.
The blog is still up by the way. Not that the information there is all untrue, but it's still up, and is an "ANON" defamation campaign by Griffin his sock puppet, Frater SR the Blog Troll.
At the link you supplied, SR wrote: "As a token of my sincere wish for peace in the Golden Dawn community, I have removed one defamation blog, called "Golden Dawn Observer", which clearly tries nothing but to libel the EOGD. I'm not interested in promoting personal vendettas on this blog anymore."
DeleteI think you're misreading the intent of the statement. I believe he is referring to removing a *link* to that "Golden Dawn Observer" blog from his own blog page. Look at the context of the discussion thread. He surely realized that removing a link to a webpage slagging his Order while leaving one up slagging Zink's Order was blatantly hypocritical.
You may disagree with the man (I certainly do on many points) but misinformation just muddies the waters.
I confirm what Joseph Maxx has said above in response to the anonymous defamation troll. If you read the context, it is clear that SR was referring to the removal of the link on his blog to a dubious blog.
ReplyDeleteThe Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the outer order of the Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega completely condemns anonymous blogs defaming ANY order or temple.
If I take a swipe at someone, I stand behind it, and there is usually good reason for it. Take the time that Nick and Pat were attacking the AO non-stop for weeks on Pat's forum. In response, I pointed out what excellent Golden Dawn reconstructionists they are, with an artist rendering their images as Borg from Star Trek.
Was it a bit mean? Yes. Was it well deserved. Yes. Was it funny? That is a matter of opinion, but most readers thought it was hilarious.
Hey, Peregrin! How about posting a photo of you, so I can make a Calvin version of it?
I´ve been following this debacle between Nick and David.
ReplyDeleteIt is stuff like this that makes me doubt the validity of magick as a spiritual path.
Magick promises to make wise man (the root of the words Wizard and Magi). But I have yet to find an Adept who embodies this promise of Magick.
I find better role models of expressing Love in the Christian tradition, other Bhakti religions and even the New Age community. I find better expressions of Wisdom and knowledge of the True Self in Zen and Advaita Vedanta. What do our 'Adepts' express?
Don't get me wrong. I love magick because it gives me an art form through which to express deep aspects of myself, and offers a wonderful toolbox of changing self and life (and hopefully in the process get to know my Self). But where is the role model that embodies the promise of becoming more than human?
We only have these models in the idea of the Secret Chiefs, or Ascended Master. But as long as we haven't met those they just remain archetypes. Projections of our desire, reflections of our ideals. Show me one living example. Where do I find an Adept that expresses the Hights of Achievement in Magick?
I have to re-evaluate why I do magick. Even if it is a valid approach to spiritual growth (which I believe it can be, and should be), I do not see many practitioners who bear fruit. It seems a road full of traps and pitfalls, maybe more so than any other path.
Is magick as a spiritual path a failure? Adepts, please do prove me wrong.